Lawyer to Lawyer
By Charles Heller, Communications Coordinator, JPFO. February 5th, 2015.
My role at JPFO is communications coordinator. I’m the media spokesman for the organization. I’m the former Executive Director of the organization from mid 2011 to late 2013.
On 1/21/15, I was one of three guests of J. Craig Williams and Bob Ambrogi on the Lawyer to Lawyer Podcast, on the Legal Talk Network. The other two guests were Professor Nicholas Johnson of Fordham Law School, and Mr. Elliot Fineman, founder of the “Gun Victims Action Council.
Mr. Fineman is an attorney, and lost his son to the action of a disturbed person with a gun, carried illegally in San Diego, in 2007. I don’t think that Mr. Fineman has healed any, and has a podcast of his own, called, “It’s The Guns, Stupid.” It is aptly named for his view of gun owners.
Professor Johnson is the author of “Negroes And The Gun: The Black Tradition of Arms,” available here: Professor Johnson has also been a guest on my program, Liberty Watch, available here: His book is excellent, and I have read it cover to cover. Read about Fredrick Douglas’ favorite gun, it’s fascinating.
The topic of the podcast was the current lawsuit against Bushmaster for the use of an XM-15 in the killings at Sandy Hook, Connecticut. Although that was the main topic, I was able to make several salient points about gun ownership, none of which penetrated Mr. Fineman’s rather closed circuit of reasoning. Professor Johnson did make some brilliant points, as well. I’ll detail a few of the highlights of the interview below, and then give you the url to the podcast so you can listen for yourself.
The hosts asked about the AR-15. I mentioned that they were garden-variety guns, very common to American gun owners, and that I had mine next to me. Professor Johnson described how they work, and the difference between them and a full auto.
At 11:38 into the interview, Mr. Fineman responded, “The gun side like to get lost in the details… the structure… the size… etc, of the gun, so that when we had the ban on automatics, semi-automatics, it was effectively no ban, because it just took the gun manufactures adjustment in the way they made their guns to get around it. …”
Yes, Mr. Fineman, we call that, “complying with the law.” He then went on to state, at 12:23 “There’s absolutely no defensive reason to have a gun that shoots 5 to 10 bullets at a time before needing to be reloaded….”
At 12:39 in the file, Mr. Fineman said, “It’s so disingenuous to say that it {AR-15} is a garden variety, tool that people use for their pleasure or hunting – it’s a strictly offensive weapon, not a defensive weapon… and it’s a weapon that civilians shouldn’t have, you never read about a person having used their semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves or to get out of a difficult situation…”
At 19:25, I responded to him, “We’re coming at it from the position of why should it [The AR-15] be allowed? SIR, government doesn’t ALLOW anything. It is a basic constitutional right….. Every single state constitution has a provision in it that says that the power is inherent in the people, and that the purpose of government is to insure the rights of the people.”
And now, the money quote, at 20:00 Elliot Fineman: “Well, all that is charming, and the typical rhetoric that your side puts out. The issue here is the defensive use of guns….”
If Mr. Fineman doesn’t know the purpose of government, and works against it, is he upholding his oath as an officer of the court? It’s not “charming” Mr. Fineman, it’s the law. Why can you not obey it?
Then, at 33:20 Mr. Fineman offered this gem: “Guns do not offer you self-protection…” He said that John Lott’s research was invalid, and that they were in the process of conducting a study which would invalidate his findings. (Is it scientific to determine a result and then hire a study to prove it??)
The podcast is archived on JPFO’s site here: Lawyer to Lawyer. (Or listen with the player below).
If you have any polite thoughts for Mr. Fineman, his e-dress is info@gunvictimsaction.org.
Charles Heller
Twitter: @libertywatchUSA
charlesheller@jpfo.org
Lawyer to Lawyer Podcast.